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#191 - 12/23/14 08:12 AM Age and going for SF
Keith Offline
FNG

Registered: 12/20/14
Posts: 1
Loc: Florida
I will try to make this as and brief as possible. I just turned 37 and I want to join the Air Force and go for Special Forces. I am a Firefighter/EMT and I am willing to put that job on hold or leave it all together if need be to become a SF member which has been my dream since I was young but life got in the way and I am at the point where I have the green light to go for it, its just a matter of weather or not the Air Force will allow it and that is my question here. I have spoken to a few guys in my fire service who were in the military for many years and they told me that as long as I can still hang with the young guys ( and I can) and blow the PAST test out of the water (which I will) then I have a chance at going for SF and they do not care about my age. I spoke to a recruiter and he informed me that it will be a combination of things such as (ASVAB Test score, Personality Test Score, PAST Test, and Basic Training PT Scores) that will determine weather or not they will allow me to try out for SF. So im looking to speak to Air Force SF guys who can inform me if its a "GO" or "NO GO" considering my situation. I see a lot of conflicting information out there and I really need to speak to the source. Any information on this will be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance.

Also wanted to add things I am doing to prepare if I get the green light...

1.) Fitness and Mental Program (Unbeatable Mind) By Commander Mark Divine former Navy SEAL Commander
2.) Stew Smith (Former Navy SEAL) 12 week fitness program for PJ/CCT PAST Preperation
3.) Swimming Lessons (Total Immersion) No doubt I need wok in the pool.

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#193 - 12/23/14 11:17 AM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
JohnG Offline
FNG

Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 15
Loc: NM
First off SF or Special Forces refers to Green Berets in the Army and that's it. Air Force offers Special Opertaions or Special Tactics career fields such as CCT, SOWT, PJ or SOF TACP. and next you will most likly have better luck in a Guard Unit than going active duty being at your age limit.

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#211 - 12/26/14 01:03 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
jamie1775 Offline
FNG

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 11
Loc: California, USA
I believe the Air Force just raised the age limit to 39 to enlist if i'm not mistaken, which would be a green light as far as age goes. Your recruiter is correct as far as the combination of various tests and physical fitness readiness playing a key role in order for you to enlist. Just study for your asvab and keep working out (especially swimming). Our situation is exactly opposite as far as reasons for enlisting. I did fire science and EMT and was supposed to go to the Santa Ana Fire academy (part time) before it got cancelled last year. I got out of the Marines in 2008 and the Air Force is the only branch I can re-enlist into as prior service because of age (almost 30) and retraining opportunities. Believe it or not, our older age gives us a mental edge over younger guys coming out of high school, so do your thing and don't let anyone else tell you any different.

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#212 - 12/26/14 02:28 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: jamie1775]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 851
Loc: Anchorage AK
Originally Posted By: jamie1775
I believe the Air Force just raised the age limit to 39 to enlist if i'm not mistaken, which would be a green light as far as age goes.
Reference-Q&A-age cutoff: "Non-prior service applicants must be at least 17 to apply and in Basic Military Training before their 40th birthday.

Officer Training School (OTS) applicants must be at least 17 to apply and commissioned before their 35th birthday.

Physician, Nurse and Allied Health applicants need to contact a recruiter, as the age criteria may vary by profession.

Note: Prior service applicants should contact their local recruiter for age cut-offs."


Originally Posted By: jamie1775
Your recruiter is correct as far as the combination of various tests and physical fitness readiness playing a key role in order for you to enlist.
Although age cut-off is less a significant factor there are AFSC entry classification qualification requirements for the Battlefield Airman AFSCs that are more rigorous, vigorous, and more stringent or constraining (disqualifying factors less likely to be considered for waiver) pertinent to medical examination and other fitness requirements.


Originally Posted By: jamie1775
Believe it or not, our older age gives us a mental edge over younger guys coming out of high school, so do your thing and don't let anyone else tell you any different.
A myth. Aging effects pertinent to entry classification into and award of certain AFSCs.

Mental edge is vague as effective human performance in physically demanding and harsh psychological demanding environments is intensely cognitive, psychomotor, and affective involving. After passing age 30 the aging process tends to impair or interfere with the emotional and psychological abilities of the not yet trained applicant's/candidate's/student's connected to resiliency and adaptability to survive in physically demanding operational environment or equivalent simulated training environment.

There are required courses that have age restrictions. Army Basic Airborne Course has a 36 year old age cut off. Reference Information for US Army Basic Airborne Course "ALL APPLICANTS:

Must be less than 36 years of age on the ATRRS report date."

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#213 - 12/26/14 05:51 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
JoeUF Offline
FNG

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 3
Loc: California
As stated above the air force has changed the age cutoff to enlist into the military. Which is a new development however the cutoff to apply for combat control in the air force specifically states member must have joined the air force by their 28 birthday. If you havent done that your SOL. If memeber is prior service they can subtract the years they served in the military off their age example: applicant is 33 with 6 years of service makes them 27 therefore eligible.I am currently in the retraining process, next time I'm at work I will be happy to copy and paste the AFIs and stipulations directly from the air force personnel centers website.Even with the age to join the air force having been raised it does not change the AFI that governs the retraining process for those specific career fields. It could be years before they rewrite those to adjust to the new age limit. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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#214 - 12/26/14 09:33 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: JoeUF]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 851
Loc: Anchorage AK
Originally Posted By: JoeUF
As stated above the air force has changed the age cutoff to enlist into the military. Which is a new development however the cutoff to apply for combat control in the air force specifically states member must have joined the air force by their 28 birthday.
You are referring to a lingering policy connected to an age requirement eligibility ceiling to enlist in the Air Force. The 27 or 28 years requirement never directly connected to entry classification into any AFSC. The only age ceiling pertinent to entry classification into an AFSC connected directly to going through initial/basic combat diver qualification course and that age several decades ago was age 32 years. This entry classification age requirement was implemented in 1962 and removed from policy NLT 1988.

Originally Posted By: JoeUF
If memeber is prior service they can subtract the years they served in the military off their age example: applicant is 33 with 6 years of service makes them 27 therefore eligible.
This policy never applied to active duty Air Force service members attempting to retrain (entry classify) into a new or different AFSC. It applied only to individuals who had separated and were discharged from military service who as prior service civilians were trying to reenter into an active duty Air Force enlistment.

Originally Posted By: JoeUF
stipulations directly from the air force personnel centers website.
The Air Force Enlisted Classification Directory and Air Force Officer Classification Directory have not had any entry criteria pertinent to an age requirement for the past several decades. Age requirements are stipulated in course prerequisites or via program management policy put out by AFPC in coordination with the career field manager. I'm unaware of any required Air Force courses for award of AFSC having age perquisites. Any courses having age prerequisites have been Navy or Army run courses. If AFPC has any AFSC specific age requirements for entry classification into AFSC purposes it would be some recent implemented requirement.

After age 30 there are increased medical risk management concerns directly connected to performing strenuous physically demanding duties.

The initial Class III and Special Operations Duty medical examinations particularly pertinent to performing combat diving and MFF duties do consider age in the health assessment of what needs to be tested and examined further before getting initial certification and clearance to perform such duties.

Age of 40 years is a significant aging deterioration milestone and brings with it many increased medical risks concerns pertinent to getting the initial Class III and Special Operations Duty medical examinations certification and clearance necessary to perform PJ, CCT and SOW duties.

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#229 - 12/30/14 09:28 AM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
Alphawolf Offline
FNG

Registered: 12/30/14
Posts: 1
Loc: KY
I'm 28 years old and also worry about my age -- So much to the extent that I have pursued PJs on facebook to speak with them on their perspectives of age as I'm active duty Navy and have to wait for my contract to be up before I can join the Air National Guard or Air Force. You're lucky in that you are not prior service.

I can tell you that the oldest PJ applicant that's been reported to me as successfully completeing the pipeline was 36 years old. Although an outlier, it does show that you can be beyond 30 years old and accomplish this feat. As Yukon brought up though, you might want to consider how long you would like to be doing it as age will matter one day in an operational setting versus the safety of training.

It was not until Yukon brought up the age limit on jump school that I realized an age would be an issue for attendance to specific schools. Usually age waivers for individual schools are not a problem in the Navy or Army - I'm not sure how it would work for PJ application. I know a 38 year old that attended jump school for his wings in the Navy. He wasn't a even spec ops, he was a regular Navy Corpsman doing a tour with DEVGRU and they asked him if he wanted to go. If I can get his email in the global directory I'll ask him what the age waiver process was for it.

Other than that, in terms of "GO" or "NO GO" - There are too many variables for that. I work in medical and deal with enlistment / re-enlistment / flight physical standards - There are a significant number of applicants that do not know they have deficiencies until they come to see me (especially color vision and depth perception or uncorrectable vision standards to be a SEAL/SWCC).

All you can do is start the process and see it through until something stops you from going through, then you try to go around, over, or under, and if that doesn't work -- You know your answer through experience rather than advice.

Hope this helps you.

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#230 - 12/30/14 01:05 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 851
Loc: Anchorage AK
Originally Posted By: Alphawolf
Although an outlier, it does show that you can be beyond 30 years old and accomplish this feat.
Outlier needs further emphasis as a person that exists away from the main body disconnects the how and why deviation from distributive population normative.

For lack of better way to describe, since 1970 most formal military training (course) standards have strayed from compliance to warfighting needs to being enlistment, retention, assignment, and promotion incentives. Consequently discussions of age limits connected to courses required for award of a career military skill has many pitfalls.

Quote:
Military Skill. A military occupational specialty in the Army and the Marine Corps, Air Force Specialty Code in the Air Force, and rating in the Navy.


US Army Airborne, US Army Ranger, US Army Air Assault and other similar types of qualification training supplement unit抯 combat capability. The context being utilization to actually perform SQI duties is dependent on special duty assignment more than performance of MOS duties. Generally, the SQI will be withdrawn and deleted from the MOS awarded when qualification skills are lost or when the Soldier withdraws from a voluntary program (for example, airborne or ranger duty).

An example of the institutionalized (intended for career advancement) promotion and career development influences putting need for training climate to comply with all can successfully complete training in higher priority than complying with war fighting capability needs.

Quote:
AR 600𤾃9 Enlisted Promotions and Reductions:
b. Badges.
(1) Combat Infantry Badge, 15.
(2) Combat Field Medical Badge, 15.
(3) Combat Action Badge, 15 (15 additional points will be awarded for each subsequent award).
(4) Expert Infantry Badge, 10.
(5) Expert Field Medical Badge, 10.
(6) Basic U.S. Army Recruiter Badge, 20 (maximum points, 50) (each subsequent award梩hat is, Gold Achievement Star, Gold Recruiter Badge, Sapphire Achievement Star梤eceives 10 points).
(7) Ranger Tab, 10.
(8) Special Forces Tab, 10.
(9) Sapper Tab, 10.
(10) Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, 20 (maximum points, 50) (additional 10 points for company or higher level
drill sergeant of the cycle).
(11) Parachutist Badge, 5.
(a) Awards of higher skill badge count as subsequent awards and will receive points. For example, a Soldier awarded the Senior Parachutist Badge and the Parachutist Badge will be credited with two parachutist badges (10 points).
(b) Soldiers who have been awarded the parachutist badge, are currently serving in an approved table of organization and equipment (TOE)/table of distribution and allowances (TDA) or paid parachutist position and are entitled to receive incentive pay for parachute duty will be awarded extra points as follows: Parachutist, 20 points; Senior, 25 points; Master, 30 points.


The context orientation of my comments directly connects to whether waivers were required or not as the training has appearances of being an incentive of some sort rather than compliance to a warfighting/operational need.

Originally Posted By: Alphawolf

I know a 38 year old that attended jump school for his wings in the Navy. He wasn't a even spec ops, he was a regular Navy Corpsman doing a tour with DEVGRU and they asked him if he wanted to go.
The Hospital Corpsman NEC presumptions is one which lacks Army Basic Airborne School as a requirement as opposed to a NEC connected to a duty assignment such as 8427 - Fleet Marine Force Reconnaissance Corpsman, 8403 - Fleet Marine Force Reconnaissance Independent Duty Corpsman, 8427 - Fleet Marine Force Reconnaissance Corpsman or 5392 - Naval Special Warfare Medic.

Quote:
5392 - Naval Special Warfare Medic

Provides pre-hospital medical care in support of Naval Special Warfare training and operations. Performs basic and advanced first aid and life support, tactical combat casualty care, tactical medical emergencies and other paramedicine emergency care. Conducts pre-deployment and pre-mission medical planning and coordination. Advises on medical tactics, techniques and procedures for special operations. Instructs personnel in basic and advanced first aid, tactical combat casualty care, basic and advanced pre-hospital life support. Provides emergency care to diving casualties. Enters hyperbaric chambers to serve as inside tender to care for patients undergoing hyperbaric treatment.

Source Rating: SO, SB
Course: Mandatory
Sequence Code: 3
Component NEC:
Primary Advisor: OPNAV (N95)
Billet Paygrades: E3-E9
CIN: K-431-0021, B-300-0042
Related NEC:
Technical Advisor: SPECWAR
Personnel Paygrades: E3-E9
CDP: 3596, 434W
NR Ind: R
Open to Women: No
ECM: BUPERS-32

NOTES:
1. NEC 5392 is a SNEC assigned to SEAL and SWCC personnel who are assigned to Naval Special Warfare SEAL and Special Boat Teams. Personnel must be qualified SO or SB to be awarded this NEC.
2. Mandatory training B-300-0042, Special Operations Combat Medic course and K-431-0021, Special Operations Technician course.
3. SEAL personnel who previously held PNEC 8491 or 8492, or any SEAL or SWCC personnel who attended Special Operations Combat Medic course B-300-0042 may be awarded NEC 5392.
4. NEC may be assigned to inactive duty SEAL and SWCC Navy Reservists who have completed the mandatory training B-300-0042, Special Operations Combat Medic course and maintains the USSOCOM Advanced Tactical Practitioner certification.


Getting a waiver to attend a course differs considerable from getting a waiver necessary to qualify for entry classification or retention of AFSC when performance of special qualification skills (Static line-MFF parachutist, combat diver) is a core mandatory requirement for award and retention of AFSC.

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#231 - 12/30/14 06:26 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 851
Loc: Anchorage AK
AFSOC looks for in-service candidates

by Senior Airman Jared Trimarchi
Joint Base Charleston Public Affairs


12/17/2014 - JOINT BASE CHARLESTON, S.C. - -- An Air Force Special Operations Command in-service recruiter visited Joint Base Charleston, S.C., Dec. 9, to meet and talk to potential special operations candidates.

Technical Sgt. Ismael Villegas, a combat controller who is a two-time Silver Star recipient, answered questions to more than 20 JB Charleston Airmen and Cadets from the Citadel, all interested in becoming combat controllers, pararescuemen, special operations weather specialists or special tactics officers.

"My purpose for today's visit is to put a face to the career field," Villegas said. "I'm here to answer any questions or concerns about the career these Airmen are interested in to include what the job entails, the journey to become one of these special operations Airmen, and about family life."

Some of the Airmen and Cadets who attended the meeting participated in a practice Physical Ability and Stamina Test, a required physical performance evaluation necessary to get into the special operations selection schools.

The PAST includes a 500-meter swim, a mile and a half run, pull-ups, push-ups and sit-ups.

"Form is an important aspect of our selection process and we want to set up Airmen for success," Villegas said. "I show Airmen the proper way to perform each exercise, and then I coach their form."

Staff Sgt. Robert Gallagher, a 560th Red Horse Squadron reservist, said having a Combat Controller answer his questions and give him advice was a real advantage eye opener.

"I am currently in the process to become a Combat Controller and having Tech. Sgt. Villegas here was a true honor," Gallagher said. "He is a tremendous leader who I look up to and have learned from."

According to Villegas, being part of the AFSOC is a humbling experience.

"My shelf life is expiring," Villegas said. "I'm getting too old and I have to find Airmen who will someday fill my shoes.

"The Air Force has done a fine job grooming and molding Airmen to become great leaders so we look for people amongst our service to join Air Force Special Operations Command."

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#247 - 01/03/15 02:14 PM Re: Age and going for SF [Re: Keith]
TY Offline
FNG

Registered: 12/29/14
Posts: 11
Loc: PA
I just happened to come across this...

"Be less than 36 years of age on ATRRS report date, unless you have an approved age waiver."

ttp://www.benning.army.mil/infantry/RTB/1-507th/airborne/entrancereq.html
_________________________
PT, DPT, MS, ATC, CSCS, PES

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