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#2098 - 03/10/16 11:29 AM Closed circuit diving
justacone Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
More exciting news for the career field: We will get closed circuit training with non rebreathers now. Supposedly the next combat dive class will be the first to receive closed circuit. As for us cones currently in the pipeline, there's talk of placing it at the end (before PJU) or possibly on the green team upgrade checklist. Not sure which will happen. I for one and super stoked about this.
Now if only we can change the graphic of that stupid dive patch bubble.

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#2109 - 03/22/16 05:39 PM Re: Closed circuit diving [Re: justacone]
justacone Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
Im surprised by the lack of response.. this is the most exciting thing Pararescue has seen in ages.

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#2115 - 03/25/16 08:21 AM Re: Closed circuit diving [Re: justacone]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 845
Loc: Anchorage AK
Closed circuit qual was part of pipeline during the 1980s. It was dropped as the training days and cost was not acceptable by HQ Air Force and HQ AETC. Further it was a qual available.

Somewhat confused about the distress over the SCUBA badge considering it was the only badge available to combat divers until the Army established the Special Operations Diver Badge and Special Operations Diving Supervisor Badge in July 2007.

BTW, these badges may be retroactively awarded to members of any service who completed the USAJFKSWCS CDQC and the combat diving supervisor course on or after October 1, 1964. There is specific documents that must be submitted however. There is a significant number of retired PJs, including me that can do so.

Further during 1974 there was much Congressional and Navy politiics to close down the U.S. Army Special Operations dive courses during 1973 and 1974. USAF PARARESCUE stood firm in that mission required PJs to be combat divers and not SCUBA divers. This is why DOD pay manual specifically the higher paying Pararescue dive pay.

As a side note the USMC established its combat diver badge 14 March 2004 concurrent with its establishment of the Marine Combatant Diver Qualification Course at. NDSTC Panama City Florida.

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#2118 - 03/25/16 10:00 PM Re: Closed circuit diving [Re: Yukon]
justacone Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 63
Loc: New Mexico
I'm being a little facetious with the badge comment. Not really a big deal at all but the joke is, that it looks like someones kindergarten age son drew it up.

Interesting to know about the awarding of USAJKSWCS CDQC badges, never knew that.

Just a little surprised here that for the first time (in what.. twenty- something years?) there is finally closed circuit required for the career field again and yet there seems to be no response from what I've seen.

This means when deploying with SF, Seals, MARSOC guys... etc that the PJ doesn't have to be that one guy who can't do a tactical amphibious infil with the rest of the team because he's not qualified. I'm no experienced operator or veteran but it seems like it's about time.

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#2122 - 03/26/16 04:57 AM Re: Closed circuit diving [Re: justacone]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 845
Loc: Anchorage AK
The one guy, PJ, not qualified when a tactical closed circuit infiltrate was required has never happened to the best of my knowledge or awareness. There was no specific combat diver qualification badge until ca. 2004 (USMC followed by the Army).

Within the Air Force, USAF Pararescue was the only career field requiring all performing duties of the AFSC to be proficirent and capable surface swimmers since 1947 and subsequently underwater swimmers (SCUBA) effective 1 March 1963. Other than few CCT at Hurlburt as required, surface and underwater swimming capability wasn't a mission need for performing duties of the AFSC until 1988.

What one needs to do is look at actual mission utilization and missions accomplished (not training accomplishments) since 1947 by those sustaining combat swimmer and SCUBA/combat diver qualifications.

Closed circuit didn't gain much importance until the late 1970s as the equipment develoment didn't evolve much until then. It was the introduction of the Dreager that put closed circuit oxygen SCUBA into being a practical tactical and other than tactical mission need capability.

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#2473 - 08/21/16 08:23 AM Re: Closed circuit diving [Re: justacone]
Gecko Offline
FNG

Registered: 08/19/16
Posts: 1
Loc: AZ
Some more recent history: All PJs were getting CC qualed up until 2008. Guys attended the USMC or the Army course until the AF dive school opened up around 2006. For the first year or so everyone (PJ/CRO/CCT/STO) went through open and closed circuit. In 2008 they shuffled things around and PJs/CROs only got SCUBA qualed with a few guys going back for CC.

justacone, I agree with you on the status of our dive badge. After the AF dive school opened up we tried to push for a new one but it was shot down for several reasons. The only other forces that use the same badge are basic Army and Navy divers (and AF SERE dunker tank safeties). It kinda fails at the entire purpose of a badge ("reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission"). Hopefully with the changes that are happening the issue will be readdressed.

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#2625 - 10/31/16 10:17 AM Re: Closed circuit diving [Re: Gecko]
GW Offline
FNG

Registered: 04/02/16
Posts: 4
Loc: around
if you're a PJ and go to certain (maybe all but I'm not sure) Special Tactics Squadrons you will get close circuit qualified. We use this capability w/the Navy frequently.

GW
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