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#2809 - 03/12/17 09:16 AM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: kpanich]  
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Yukon Online
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Yukon  Online
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The retraining assessment is for active duty retraining applicants. Air Force Recruiting Service is enlisting you as a prior service applicant.

While you do get a contract it isn't the GTEP contract given to no prior service enlisting applicants. You will be going straight to the DEV course, unless you are required to process through the prior service process for uniform issue and a few other administrative things.

#2814 - 03/15/17 07:32 AM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: Yukon]  
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Nobody2 Offline
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Appreciate the response sir! That's what I thought I was going to have to do. Although I believe the assessment would be beneficial ill just have to make my way without. Have a good one!

#2886 - 04/17/17 06:48 PM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: kpanich]  
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"For the retraining assessment we are utilizing the NEO, along with Psych docs that will be in attendance the entire assessment, where they will complete cadre and student peer/360 assessments throughout the week."

If someone demonstrates the leadership skills and physical fitness that cadre are looking for and he has a good peer review can he still be eliminated because of the NEO or because of psychological reasons?

#2887 - 04/17/17 08:20 PM Re: New Prior Service Selection for Pararescue [Re: kpanich]  
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Yukon Online
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I do not have access to the go/no-go standards. However, consider how can one demonstrate possessing adequate or sufficient leadership skills through the course of several situational problems having some level of design to evaluate mentality, personality and emotional capabilities necessary to survive and accomplish assigned missions and concurrently fail for psychological reasons? It will be the doing incompetency's that will indicate the applicant will most likely be unable to cope in doing in the mission/operational environment long before any severe mental mental or psychological disease or condition will be diagnosed.

I do have extensive collection of various justification for assessment standards implemented during and after WWII to current day. All are connected with being in a many month combat tour and being in day-to-day combat, particularly combat involving lots of death and maiming.

The studies focused on reducing mental breakdown attrition and development psychological inefficiencies once in the combat theater and being there accomplishing in combat.

These studies indicated significant advanced performance ineffectiveness and inefficiencies happened much sooner for psychological (mental breakdowns and incompetence) when performing under combat stress rather than for physical fitness causals.

Most worrisome is the studies clearly and concisely indicated some people were better with mentally, emotionally and psychologically coping than many others.

The OSS among other organizations implemented assessments designed to determine the physical, mental, and emotional capabilities of individuals before those individuals could and would be put in their intended combat theater assignments and duties.

The Army Air Forces used these studies combined with aircrew survivability rates and operational conditions to determine and implement maximum number of combat hours or sorties aircrews will fly until they were removed from flying combat sorties. Known as combat tour points these points were adjusted throughout WWII to correspond with changing survivability rates and operational conditions.

Psychological disorder testing, assessments and/or evaluations for special duties or occupational classifications would bring much associated stigma if elimination for performance ineffectiveness and inefficiencies became incorrectly connected to having a psychological disorder.

Neuroticism-Extraversion-Openness Inventory (NEO) doesn’t assess serious psychological disorders. It has a personality assessment purpose to differentiate normal differences in personality and is geared to identifying personalities most likely to thrive and function effectively in the environment the individual will be placed into to do something successfully.

In this case the NEO is designed in purpose to identify individuals having personality traits allowing them to most likely adapt to and cope with the education and training environment encountered in successfully completing all the initial skills courses and training required for award of the Pararescue 3-level AFSC.

Pertinent to psychological disorders it takes a bit more than a TAPAS or NEO assessment to be eliminated for psychological reasons as these tests do not establish or confirm a medical diagnosis. For perspective all the Battlefield Airman AFSCs require a PULHES psychiatric factor of 1. The PULHES psychiatric factor profiles are:

1-No psychiatric pathology. May have history of a transient personality disorder.

2-May have history of recovery from an acute psychotic reaction due to external or toxic causes unrelated to alcohol or drug addiction.

3-Satisfactory remission from an acute psychotic or neurotic episode that permits utilization under specific conditions (assignment when outpatient psychiatric treatment is available or certain duties can be avoided).

4-Does not meet S3 above.

Neither NEO or TAPAS have purpose and are completely unsuitable for determining a PULHES psychiatric factor.

#2888 - 04/18/17 08:53 AM Re: New Prior Service Selection for Pararescue [Re: kpanich]  
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That's excellent information. Thank you very much Yukon.

#3184 - 11/12/17 08:17 PM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: Yukon]  
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I am wondering what happens to a prior service that takes the indoc and removes themselves from training. I have been told that if they are active duty that they will be discharged. if this is true will they never be allowed to try for pj indoc again, even if they train for a few years and retry or go to the reserves. is it a one time deal and if you quit you never get another chance.

#3187 - 11/13/17 12:12 PM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: kpanich]  
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Yukon Online
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The prior service enlistment contract brings the prior service civilian back into a term of enlistment for a specific AFSC. The prior-service enlistment contract, Air Force Form 3006, clearly and distinctly states "If I fail to complete the required training, I have voided this agreement in regard to Air Force specialty and assignment and will either be reclassified into another AFS based on the needs of the Air Force, or separated. I agree to accept the results of reclassification/retention action taken at the training center or at my initial assignment If attending a formal training course,stipulated in writing the failure to complete training required for award of AFSC will result in administrative separation (discharge) from the Air Force." Generally and typically lack of other AFSCs available to classify the prior-service student into puts separation (discharge) into high probability as the administrative action.

The student removing themselves from training is a self initiated elimination (SIE). The SIE is a voluntary action of the student which hasn't resulted in immediate removal from any courses required for award of the Pararescue 3-skill level AFSC since the 1980s. The purpose of the SIE option completely lacks unfavorable personnel actions. It's simply forces (presuming GTEP enlistment contract for Pararescue, or the current active duty airman retraining out of current AFSC into Pararescue) disposition (what to do) administrative actions. The between the rock and hard spot for the prior-service enlisted student enlisted to entry classify in Pararescue is the administrative actions are more limited than those available for no-prior service students enlisted with GTEP contract for Pararescue or the active duty retraining out of an AFSC into Pararescue.

The SIE does initiate significant administrative review of all students who exercise this option to ensure it wasn't done thoughtlessly or as a momentary impulse by the student. This review may result in the student being returned to training in current class or a wash-back to the next class if the student desires and the review determines based on students training performance that such action will likely result in the student being successful in getting through training. All students are given the same assessment and equal considerations in determining if the SIE does result in removal from training or there is a return to training in current class student is in or washed-back to the next class.

As prior service have in previous enlistments served more than 180 days of active duty the separation will generated the most recent and current Certificate of Release or Discharge From Active Duty, more better known as the DD-214. The generated DD-214 will have list type of separation, Character of Service (always Honorable unless punitive UCMJ action is the cause), Separation cause (refers to an applicable AFI), re-entry (reenlistment) code, a separation code, and a very short narrative reason for the separation.

#3191 - 11/13/17 05:35 PM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: Yukon]  
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ss8541hill Offline
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Yukon,

Thank you for the post. The only follow up I have is as I understand it from your post, an SIR does not keep you from ever attempting PJ INDOC again.

#3192 - 11/13/17 06:56 PM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: kpanich]  
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Yukon Online
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Any suggestion active duty will be discharged if or when they SIE is extremely misleading. All students are on active duty while in these courses, there is much careful consideration involved in deciding the appropriate reclassification or separation action when a student either voluntarily removes themselves from training or is involuntarily removed from training.

The specific form documenting the removal, AETC Form 125A, Record of Administrative Training Actions, from training doesn’t hinder trying to entry classify (retrain out of current AFSC into Pararescue) unless it documents the specific precise recommendation “The student should not be considered for reinstatement into this course”. It is important to be aware of or understand a student’s SIE request doesn’t necessitate or compel by itself this recommendation.

Some distinctions must also be understood the prior-service enlisting to entry classify into Pararescue who SIEs is at higher risk of being separated (discharged) than other students. The separation (discharge) generates a DD-214, Certificate of Release or Discharge From Active Duty. Unfortunately even if the 125A specifically states “the student should be considered for reinstatement in this course” the DD-214, because a 3-skill level AFSC wasn't awarded, will likely have a reentry code and separation program designator indicating the individual is ineligible to reenlist in the Air Force. Thus in this situation and circumstances it’s a prior-service enlistment eligibility problem and not a simply a retraining problem.

However, presuming the student who SIEed is reclassified into another AFSC, the SIEed enlisted service member having FTA or NCORP eligibility may and can submit a retraining application request IAW policies and procedures of AFI 36-2626, AIRMAN RETRAINING PROGRAM. This is when the AETC Form 125A, Record of Administrative Training Actions, connected to the SIE removal from training having specific precise recommendation “The student should not be considered for reinstatement into this course” may and can cause the retraining application request to be disapproved. I cannot stress enough the SIE removal doesn’t necessitate or compel by itself this recommendation.

#3221 - 11/24/17 04:38 PM Re: PJ Retraining Assessment [Re: kpanich]  
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Geewhiz87 Offline
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I was looking to inquire on not being selected at assessment. At that point if not considered a failure as was mentioned in a earlier reply, can one just resubmit a new retraining request? This of course is with the applicant not quitting by action or self eliminating. As the assessment searching for more than just the physical qualities to be successful at the indoctrination course, should an applicant not have the right leadership qualities right off the back would an invite back happen? Does this exist at all?

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