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#662 - 02/11/15 01:25 PM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: SC45]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 875
Loc: Anchorage AK
Originally Posted By: SC45
Yukon,
I thought that while it is discouraged, it is still possible to backout while in DEP.
Much pertinent to the BA AFSCs depends on if individual is entered into DEP as a qualified applicant with a job reservation, or not.

General policy is "I understand that the Air Force will try to reserve me a job for which I am qualified. If my choices are not available, I may offer additional choices or elect discharge from the Delayed Enlistment Program."

The disconnects of the orientation to your reasoning and reality are: (1)Getting MEPS qualified is getting qualified to enlist (no entry classification for a specific job has happened yet), (2) a job reservation for PJ, CCT, SOW, TACP, SERE, EOD) is impossible without being entry classification qualified (Production ASVAB, TAPAS, MEPS medical exam, PAST), and (3) Eligibility to be administered PAST requires the individual to be in DEP without a job reservation for PJ, CCT, SOW, TACP, SERE, or EOD, but possibly with a job reservation for another job or a aptitude area enlistment job reservation). Simply a GTEP contract offer for these AFSCs will not happen until all qualification test results and medical qualified MEPS medical exam results are officially entered into the Air Force Recruiting Information Support System.

Although Air Force Recruiting Service policy is: "Not make statements that imply the Air Force will take legal action against an applicant/recruit who refuses to go AD or EAD. Applicants who enlist in the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) or take a commissioning oath in the Air Force Reserve will not be ordered or otherwise forced to report for active duty (AD) or extended active duty (EAD)." Further official policy is a DEP discharge can always be requested by the individual and AFRS and recruiters.

The DEP separation (Discharge) shares significant similarities to the Entry Level Separation (Discharge).

There are many separation reasons connected to both, some without any consequences and some with consequences. The separation reasons I will focus on have similarities in orientation to separation (discharge causals connected to claiming conditions that interfere with military service or having entry level performance and conduct problems. Simply these can be attributed to individual backing out of the enlistment declaring I QUIT, I want-need to go home to my mommy, I didn't realize I actually was going to have to get out of bed every day to work, or I'm special and you can't make me be not special similarities.


Quote:
Reference AFI 36-3208 ADMINISTRATIVE SEPARATION OF AIRMEN.

A3.5. Entry-Level Separation. This type of separation is given only when the person is in his or her first 180 days of continuous active military service or the first 180 days of continuous active military service after a break of more than 92 days of active service. This is a discharge that does not attempt to characterize the type of service as either good or bad. It is not the only type of separation authorized during the first 180 days of military service, as it is possible for a person to receive either an honorable or an under other than honorable conditions discharge as well.

...
6.2.2. Board Hearing. Airmen recommended for discharge for a reason in Chapter 5 must be offered an opportunity for a hearing by an administrative discharge board if one or more of the conditions listed below applies: ...

6.2.2.2. The respondent has 6 years or more total active and inactive military service at the time the discharge processing starts. This includes service in the delayed enlistment program (DEP). The disposition board hearing meets this requirement for cases processed under Chapter 5, Section 5J.
The text emphasized in red correlated to being in DEP is an enlistment in the Inactive Reserves that brings with it a term (period)of eight years of obligation to military service. The DEP separation (Discharge) removes serving that obligation the individual voluntarily entered into.

I emphasized text in red that is pertinent to backing out prior to obtaining the GTEP contract. It is pertinent as without the GTEP any specific job placement is not on the table and the going to MEPS to become MEPS qualified is becoming qualified to enlist and not to be a PJ, CCT, SOW, SERE, TACP, or EOD. Specific job placement does not enter into reality until the GTEP contract for a specific AFSC is obtained.

What many refuse to realize or be cognizant of is they have no legal right to demand or expect getting a GTEP enlistment contract and none of the Military Services have legal or ethical obligation to offer any individual a GTEP contract.

The DEP discharge does have separation codes similar in nature as the codes used to indicate reason for the Entry Level Separation.

The significant difference between the DEP Discharge and the Entry Level Separation is the DEP Discharge is not connected to entering in active duty and serving a military obligation. Thus while there is no military service record generated there is a record of DEP discharge that is retained in MEPS databases and recruiting databases for up to eight years. The consequence are pretty much limited to trying to enlist during this period and the separation code reason connected to the discharge that is basically used in the same way a separation code and reenlistment (reentry) code is used.

Even the benign "No longer qualified for option and declines alternate" separation code has potential trying to enlist in the Air Force or get Air Force commission appointment future consequence. Some of those code have consequences in trying to enlist in the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard. Be careful of what you wish for in exercising the I quit DEP option just because you can.

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#959 - 03/23/15 10:44 AM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: JBrandlen]
SC45 Offline
FNG

Registered: 01/20/15
Posts: 11
Loc: Ohio
Thank you for your responses. My only other question is if one doesn't score high enough on the TAPAS to meet the PJ requirement, can you still get a guaranteed CCT contract if you have a qualifying score?

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#960 - 03/23/15 10:54 AM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: JBrandlen]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 875
Loc: Anchorage AK
From the current AFECD:

3.5.1.2. Minimum score of 60 required on PJ selection model completed in Tailored Adaptive Personality Assessment System (TAPAS).

3.5.1.2. Minimum score of 40 required on SERE selection model completed in Tailored Adaptive Personality Assessment System (TAPAS).

3.5.1.2. Minimum score of 30 required on CCT selection model completed in Tailored Adaptive Personality Assessment System (TAPAS).

3.5.1.3. Minimum score of 30 required on SOWT selection model completed in Tailored Adaptive Personality Assessment System (TAPAS).

3.5.1.2. Minimum score of 30 required on TACP selection model completed in Tailored Adaptive Personality Assessment System (TAPAS).

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#962 - 03/23/15 11:29 AM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: Yukon]
SC45 Offline
FNG

Registered: 01/20/15
Posts: 11
Loc: Ohio
Thank you, I am aware of the required scores. My question is, suppose someone want's to enlist with a PJ contract but only scores a 50 as opposed to the required 60, I know he has the score required for CCT but would he actually be ale to get a CCT contract? To my understanding you can only list one battlefield airman job. Thank you for your response.

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#963 - 03/23/15 12:00 PM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: SC45]
Yukon Offline
Operator

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 875
Loc: Anchorage AK
Supposedly the BA/CS Pre-Accession Selection Model process applies to all individuals interested in becoming BA/CS Airmen. What this means pertinent to TAPAS is every BA/CS applicant must complete the TAPAS and it should kick out a selection model score for all the AFSCs having a TAPAS requirement.

Your question needs to be addressed to your recruiter as the BA AFSC is not actually in consideration in until MEPS qualified (ASVAB, TAPAS, medical exam). There is no administering of PAST until MEPS qualified, so if TAPAS score disqualified for one AFSC the results should indicate score for the other AFSC TAPAS models. As PAST pass is required, the BA/CS AFSC doesn't get locked in until qualified with pass for all entry classification requirements (ASVAB, TAPAS, MEPS medical exam, PAST).

Please note use of "selection Model" score. The TAPAS assessment is not a linear score progression from low to high in comparison between AFSC selection models. Although each model has a linear progression each model is looking at parameters (answers to the questions) differently although it is the same test. This means there is no more desirable or less desirable correct answer to any of the questions. The how the questions are answered actually determine your fit in each model which does have its own unique linear score progression in a normalized bell curve. Simply, this means a 50 score on the PJ TAPAS selection model may be a 20 on the CCT TAPAS selection model. Which means I do not know the scoring correlation between the scoring models.

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#964 - 03/23/15 12:55 PM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: Yukon]
SC45 Offline
FNG

Registered: 01/20/15
Posts: 11
Loc: Ohio
Thank you for your thorough response. Thats exactly what I needed.

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#996 - 04/02/15 09:33 PM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: SC45]
DN123 Offline
FNG

Registered: 02/23/15
Posts: 4
Loc: USA
As of now you will be required to still take the TAPAS but the go/No-go will not be factored in. This is current guidance given to us my AFRS leadership. The PAST is what will be required. They are redoing how we are accessing BA/CS candidates

From the Commander of AFRS Gen Johnson:

Recruiting Team:

Quick update on the PAST and TAPAS to keep you in the loop:

- We ceased administering all PASTs for our BA/CS candidates over a month ago due to safety and liability concerns.
- This week, AFRS/RSO completed coordination with AFSOC & ACC & AFRS Groups to surge AFSOC and ACC testers out across AFRS to administer all required PASTs
-- Awaiting Air Staff approval, but anticipate testing to re-start in a week or two (AFSOC and ACC will conduct the testing)
- Each Group will coordinate with AFSOC to schedule the testers and align with squadron needs
-- Squadrons have provided proposed pooled test locations
- Today we received HQ AF approval to temporarily suspend the 3-factor TAPAS model (this will eliminate the no-practice PAST as well as waiting on a "Go" or "No-Go")
-- All applicants will still take the TAPAS at MEPS, but it will not figure into a model
-- This means we can also look at re-booking applicants who previously received a "No-Go" and are currently holding other jobs
- Continue hunting for all potential BA/CS applicants...we still have roughly 520 of those jobs to fill this year
- For those applicants who cannot be tested by an AFSOC or ACC tester, we will work a process to ship them directly to BMT where they will accomplish the PAST during week 1 (these should be relatively small numbers)
- AFRS policy is still in place: AFRS personnel will NOT conduct any Physical Fitness training, development, or assessments of Applicants or Recruits
- For the Long-term solution regarding BA /CS accessions, we are actively pursuing a permanent structure to stand-up a Scout / Recruiter / Developer construct to handle BA / CS scouting, accessions, mentoring, and physical fitness development and testing
-- Specifically, we are working with ACC and AFSOC regarding Scouts (Active Duty Battlefield Airmen).
-- And, we are working with Contracting, for the "Developer" part of the construct (former or retired Battlefield Airmen). Developers will be assigned in the field and at BMT to work the physical fitness development and testing of BA / CS applicants as well as helping candidates with their mental preparation.

We'll continue sending you updates.

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#997 - 04/02/15 11:27 PM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: DN123]
TxZ Offline
FNG

Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 2
Loc: Texas
Thanks for the update.
Question for you though...How does this affect the 2 week time period limit for those seeking to attempt the PAST? Or is that rule even in place after this?

ZTX

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#998 - 04/03/15 06:26 AM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: DN123]
Dylanderson Offline
Apprentice

Registered: 12/28/14
Posts: 27
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: DN123

- For those applicants who cannot be tested by an AFSOC or ACC tester, we will work a process to ship them directly to BMT where they will accomplish the PAST during week 1 (these should be relatively small numbers)


I don't see this working out well.

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#1008 - 04/07/15 10:03 PM Re: TAPAS required? [Re: TxZ]
DN123 Offline
FNG

Registered: 02/23/15
Posts: 4
Loc: USA
The two week time limit post medical examination was part of the BA/CS model and that is currently NOT in place. It may resume in the future, the process is currently being evaluated.

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